Comments on: Let’s party like it is 1999 http://www.j5live.com/2008/08/10/lets-party-like-it-is-1999/ Where the urethane hits the pavement Mon, 10 Oct 2011 13:34:18 -0400 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.4 hourly 1 By: Karl Lattimer http://www.j5live.com/2008/08/10/lets-party-like-it-is-1999/comment-page-1/#comment-19479 Karl Lattimer Mon, 11 Aug 2008 13:12:20 +0000 http://www.j5live.com/2008/08/10/lets-party-like-it-is-1999/#comment-19479 Fantasy mate :) not fantacy! Fantasy mate :) not fantacy!

]]> By: Anon http://www.j5live.com/2008/08/10/lets-party-like-it-is-1999/comment-page-1/#comment-19478 Anon Mon, 11 Aug 2008 11:17:17 +0000 http://www.j5live.com/2008/08/10/lets-party-like-it-is-1999/#comment-19478 Well Ubuntu have had a quicker booting grub for single OS installs for a few releases and their users aren't screaming. Their reasoning seems to be if you are the only OS then don't show grub by default but instead have a short countdown. A menu is only shown (with a longer countdown) if any other OS is also installed. I see no problem with having users hold down ctrl to show grub in the single OS case (other than it would have been nice to have trained people to press ctrl instead of escape to see the menu several releases ago). However in the Windows and OSX cases their installs are not designed to go on second and thus having to show a menu is not a problem they need be concerned with. Fedora is not in thier position. Well Ubuntu have had a quicker booting grub for single OS installs for a few releases and their users aren’t screaming. Their reasoning seems to be if you are the only OS then don’t show grub by default but instead have a short countdown. A menu is only shown (with a longer countdown) if any other OS is also installed.

I see no problem with having users hold down ctrl to show grub in the single OS case (other than it would have been nice to have trained people to press ctrl instead of escape to see the menu several releases ago). However in the Windows and OSX cases their installs are not designed to go on second and thus having to show a menu is not a problem they need be concerned with. Fedora is not in thier position.

]]> By: red http://www.j5live.com/2008/08/10/lets-party-like-it-is-1999/comment-page-1/#comment-19477 red Mon, 11 Aug 2008 08:15:31 +0000 http://www.j5live.com/2008/08/10/lets-party-like-it-is-1999/#comment-19477 I like to not have grub shown (I previously set it to wait for only 1 seconds, which is enough for me to act in case I want to start a non-default OS). But I'm a "power user". For the average user, this might indeed be a problem - especially to those who normally use Windows and now try Linux/Fedora for the first time. They won't like to not know how to get back to their Windows, if they don't like Linux. And because they don't know anything about Linux, they might have a really tough time to find out about pressing a certain key at a certain time. Tough times make you hate whatever made them occur - Fedora/Linux in this case. Even if it makes installation a bit more complicated, I'd add this as an option. Or search for another way to got - but the current approach won't be wise. I already see the people at all those linux events coming to us and complaining about that... I like to not have grub shown (I previously set it to wait for only 1 seconds, which is enough for me to act in case I want to start a non-default OS). But I’m a “power user”.

For the average user, this might indeed be a problem – especially to those who normally use Windows and now try Linux/Fedora for the first time. They won’t like to not know how to get back to their Windows, if they don’t like Linux. And because they don’t know anything about Linux, they might have a really tough time to find out about pressing a certain key at a certain time. Tough times make you hate whatever made them occur – Fedora/Linux in this case.

Even if it makes installation a bit more complicated, I’d add this as an option. Or search for another way to got – but the current approach won’t be wise. I already see the people at all those linux events coming to us and complaining about that…

]]> By: drago01 http://www.j5live.com/2008/08/10/lets-party-like-it-is-1999/comment-page-1/#comment-19476 drago01 Mon, 11 Aug 2008 05:50:47 +0000 http://www.j5live.com/2008/08/10/lets-party-like-it-is-1999/#comment-19476 J5: "You just need to hold down a key" is not a solution see: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=458576#c8 J5:
“You just need to hold down a key” is not a solution see:
https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=458576#c8

]]> By: J5 http://www.j5live.com/2008/08/10/lets-party-like-it-is-1999/comment-page-1/#comment-19474 J5 Sun, 10 Aug 2008 23:18:09 +0000 http://www.j5live.com/2008/08/10/lets-party-like-it-is-1999/#comment-19474 You still get dual boot but you need to hold down a key. So I don't buy this argument that grub should be the default. As far as an option being in Anaconda it has been long ago figured out that adding too many options to an install confuses users and does not help. Those who want a 2 second grub boot will know how to enable it and I have a feeling that upgrades will not change behaviour but the desktop team has the last say there. You still get dual boot but you need to hold down a key. So I don’t buy this argument that grub should be the default. As far as an option being in Anaconda it has been long ago figured out that adding too many options to an install confuses users and does not help. Those who want a 2 second grub boot will know how to enable it and I have a feeling that upgrades will not change behaviour but the desktop team has the last say there.

]]> By: Jon Pritchard http://www.j5live.com/2008/08/10/lets-party-like-it-is-1999/comment-page-1/#comment-19473 Jon Pritchard Sun, 10 Aug 2008 21:26:17 +0000 http://www.j5live.com/2008/08/10/lets-party-like-it-is-1999/#comment-19473 Rahul, in that case I as a novice user knew nothing about it. I change my mind, regarding the configuration utility. Hopefully Fedora will be smart enough to detect and label other OS' partitions in GRUB and if they exist can default to the current setup. I don't see what's wrong with having an easy option in Anaconda to define the timeout length in GRUB effectively making it a non issue (?) or to resort to the current behaviour. Either way please don't deny/lookover the fact that there are people who want to dual-boot, some of those being Windows users looking to switch, and accomodate their usage case. That's all I'm asking. I don't know the whole situation I just hope that I'm not going to suddenly get very frustrated when trying out Fedora 10. Rahul, in that case I as a novice user knew nothing about it. I change my mind, regarding the configuration utility. Hopefully Fedora will be smart enough to detect and label other OS’ partitions in GRUB and if they exist can default to the current setup.

I don’t see what’s wrong with having an easy option in Anaconda to define the timeout length in GRUB effectively making it a non issue (?) or to resort to the current behaviour.

Either way please don’t deny/lookover the fact that there are people who want to dual-boot, some of those being Windows users looking to switch, and accomodate their usage case. That’s all I’m asking. I don’t know the whole situation I just hope that I’m not going to suddenly get very frustrated when trying out Fedora 10.

]]> By: drago01 http://www.j5live.com/2008/08/10/lets-party-like-it-is-1999/comment-page-1/#comment-19472 drago01 Sun, 10 Aug 2008 18:48:45 +0000 http://www.j5live.com/2008/08/10/lets-party-like-it-is-1999/#comment-19472 Randall: The point is that after the first kernel update everybody (who does not remove a kernel by hand) will have two kernels installed. So whats the point in hidding it between install and first kernel update? Randall:
The point is that after the first kernel update everybody (who does not remove a kernel by hand) will have two kernels installed.
So whats the point in hidding it between install and first kernel update?

]]> By: Randall Wood http://www.j5live.com/2008/08/10/lets-party-like-it-is-1999/comment-page-1/#comment-19471 Randall Wood Sun, 10 Aug 2008 18:19:56 +0000 http://www.j5live.com/2008/08/10/lets-party-like-it-is-1999/#comment-19471 I failed to mention: we have some huge customers who have requested this as a feature. I failed to mention: we have some huge customers who have requested this as a feature.

]]> By: Randall Wood http://www.j5live.com/2008/08/10/lets-party-like-it-is-1999/comment-page-1/#comment-19470 Randall Wood Sun, 10 Aug 2008 18:18:36 +0000 http://www.j5live.com/2008/08/10/lets-party-like-it-is-1999/#comment-19470 2 kernels is easily distinguishable from the "any other os installed" situation. Grub should be automatically shown if two or more boot options *boot off of different partitions or disks.* 2 kernels is easily distinguishable from the “any other os installed” situation. Grub should be automatically shown if two or more boot options *boot off of different partitions or disks.*

]]> By: drago01 http://www.j5live.com/2008/08/10/lets-party-like-it-is-1999/comment-page-1/#comment-19469 drago01 Sun, 10 Aug 2008 15:48:44 +0000 http://www.j5live.com/2008/08/10/lets-party-like-it-is-1999/#comment-19469 Just ignore the whole freedom stuff and read my comment here: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=458576#c1 I think that those are valid points. Again: we loose more than we gain with doing this. It should be "I don't want to see a grub screen" in system-config-boot to opt *in* not *out*. The default should be show the grub screen. The "if any other os is installed" won't work see my comment in bugzilla regarding the 2 kernel situation. Just ignore the whole freedom stuff and read my comment here:
https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=458576#c1

I think that those are valid points.
Again: we loose more than we gain with doing this.
It should be “I don’t want to see a grub screen” in system-config-boot to opt *in* not *out*.

The default should be show the grub screen.

The “if any other os is installed” won’t work see my comment in bugzilla regarding the 2 kernel situation.

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