Wed 14 May 2008
I’m not going to get into details because I have no interest in a pissing match but I am sure anyone who has been in any large Open Source project has had to deal with poisonous people. It sucks even more when that poisonous person trumpets themselves and actually has an audience of easily gullible listeners who’s eyes have wool pulled over and ears, cotton shoved into. It sucks yet even more when that person leaves the project, and then becomes self proclaimed pundit of the project, proclaiming to have the cure to all ills, as the person proclaimed when part of the project as well. And the total suck comes from the fact that that person, who was at first a trusted member of the project and given much responsibility, who failed on almost every single one of their given tasks, is one of the main reasons for any issues which said person now sells the cure for. We call people like this snake oil salesmen, charismatic people with no morals other than their own desire to get ahead at any cost, and it suck to see people like this still exist and still can pull one over on the masses. This day is the suxor.
May 14th, 2008 at 1:09 pm
I’m not sure what you are referring to exactly, but I fell ya very well. But if I can share a suggestion: try not to let those people get under your skin. I had a bad experience last year as my health degraded because of stress… and poisonous people were one of the reasons I was under so much stress, probably the main reason.
They still are a problem for me too, but I try not to stay around them too much, when I see they start their usual behaviour, I just take off and do something else. I started playing as a “therapy” against these people: I just imagine them as the demons I slay on DMC4
May 14th, 2008 at 1:10 pm
It seems to me that poisonous people are on the rise in the past few years in the greater F/LOSS community.
I’ve been wondering if it’s just that these people need attention because they felt neglected as children or what, but it’s obvious to me that they want the spotlight more than they want to improve free software (despite their assurances to the contrary).
It disgusts me, too.
May 14th, 2008 at 1:14 pm
Ever seen this nice video about the topic?
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4216011961522818645
May 14th, 2008 at 1:34 pm
Gee, I wonder who you are talking about?
May 14th, 2008 at 2:11 pm
Thanks for sharing this. I (and some friends) have the same feeling about some people.
May 14th, 2008 at 2:51 pm
I’m pretty sure I know who you’re talking about, and I think in this case you and everyone else involved in the project need to do a better job with positive PR. There’s been so much negativity around it lately that it’s drowned out anything else in the area.
May 14th, 2008 at 3:04 pm
+1
May 14th, 2008 at 3:12 pm
I’ve met Ivan and I don’t think he’s poisonous nor a snake oil salesman. His essay, while over the top, does make some very valid points. And it sure explains a lot of the strangeness we poor G1G1 participants have been hearing coming out of NN’s mouth over the last 4 months.
We probably all agree that there’s a massive problem. Now, what’s the best way to move forward? Content-free blog posts with vague ad-hominems? Probably not.
May 14th, 2008 at 3:18 pm
+1.
May 14th, 2008 at 3:24 pm
You are absolutely right. Not only those poisonous people take advantage of the FOSS community’s work, but they drive the really interested and working people away from that projects.
I’ve seen it dozens of times but FOSS usually protects itself from that kind of people by having a very tight hierarchical structure based on knowledge, work and accomplishments. Unfortunately some newer communities aren’t establishing those thoughts on their structure, allowing the poisonous people to strike again.
I myself also had stress related health issues due to one of those disgusting persons and left a project that I have devoted for such a long time. And I am sure many more people suffer of that, no only me and Diego.
May 14th, 2008 at 3:59 pm
For a moment, I don’t get which one you aim for – Ivan or NN. Well, both they have issues, but be honest, Ivan at least somehow communicate with community and have been open about his issues with project.
Well, NN is big example of poisonous people, but it is much difficult than that – he is poisonous to himself, to his ideas, it seems that he is very haotic and acts on emotions. No wonder why OLPC has been a rather let down so far. However, I hope not everything is lost.
Sb: problem is that for moving forward communication is needed. For now, there is none from OLPC leadership. And if history tells, there will be none.
So what’s next? I see only two things – NN and Redhat gets together and clean misunderstanding about OLPC plans (What Sugar will be, how it will be, where Windows XP stands in all this, etc.). Afaik people are frustrated from both sides of fence and therefore this blame game. Of course, there is second variant – Redhat and friends look at other possible vendor/organisation to deliver XO like boxes and educational program. That would be pitty, because everything can be fixed using communication.
May 14th, 2008 at 4:08 pm
No community is completely immune to such people, though some do better than others. I’d like to think the FOSS community(ies) generally fall into the more resistant category, due to the increased proportion of independent thinkers and the values of freedom and openness.
Still, there is no total immunity. Not to endorse any assessment of any particular person, but certainly folks should be wary.
Note that such behavior may be genetic:
http://tinyurl.com/5yzfyo
May 14th, 2008 at 4:09 pm
Sb,
First of all I never named anyone so it is pretty bad form to put words into my mouth. You are free to speculate though. Second, ya it’s ad-hominem but then I’m not addressing any argument to be proven or disproven. I think the only point I made was that poisonous people ruin my day (and this particular character has shown a pattern of hypocritical behaviour and I have restrained myself until now). Note that “poisonous people” is a valid coined phrase, please watch the video posted in comment #3. In any cased I sincerely hope you don’t think you are the content police because those who absolutely know what I am talking about gleaned more content from the first sentence than anything specific that I could write. I’ll forgive you for not knowing what is exactly going on, but don’t pretend to know either. If I feel there is a right time to air it, and that time may never come, I’ll do so but for now I am just venting. You can take it or leave it. I know those who took it and it makes them feel much better knowing they are not alone in this sentiment.
May 14th, 2008 at 6:39 pm
J5: This is one of the curses of a high profile blog like yours. People, including me, are going to make second guesses and ill-informed opinions when you write a post like that; and I think you know that very well.
Not saying that anybody is right or wrong, it is just human nature to try and comprehend the underlying pattern.
May 14th, 2008 at 7:36 pm
J5, I have to agree with Mikkel here, I think it was clear that people would assume you were talking about X, Y or both, given the timing and publicity of your blog.
Assuming that you must have known this would happen one must wonder if this post has much benefit, or if plays into the hands of conflict, resulting in less happiness and harmony in the world.
May 15th, 2008 at 12:11 am
J5, don’t you think that this sort of post turns you, yourself, into a poisonous person? This blog post is 99% stop energy. In reply to Ivan’s lucid rant, you pretty much “You’re wrong, and you’re a liar.” (snake-oil, same thing) How is this not poisonous?
Obviously I’m not the content police — it’s your blog. If I’m wrong about the intent of your post, then I guess I don’t understand what you’re trying to say and would really appreciate some clarification.
May 15th, 2008 at 5:59 am
Sb: to be honest, Ivan post was 1000% stop energy. He had valid points, but somehow he failed to detect who was responsible about what.
NN and OLPC has perefectly valid vision. All is what OLPC had to do is to _implement_ it, no matter what it takes. Instead of that, when first problems accours, everyone including Nicholas caves in and says, uhh ohh, maybe it wasn’t so good idea.
If you are not capable or don’t feel strong enough go to the end, DON’T DO IT, PERIOD.
Or don’t quit and try to solve problems.
Duh.
All this whinning – for what?! Free software was reason of bad organization?! RMS is nuthead just because he says what he always have said (and that he has right to have his opinion)?
Come on people. Stop playing BLAME GAMES. FIX THE DAMN PROJECT.
Sorry for rant
May 15th, 2008 at 6:26 am
ummmm
i don’t know your project but MAN it sounds like you work at my company!!!!
May 15th, 2008 at 10:10 am
Yes my blog is high profile to a small subset of people but it is also a direct link to a lot of friends. A couple of them have first hand knowledge of the hell that preceded this post.
To all those who think that my post was an attempt to accomplish anything other than personal peace of mind please look up the adjective form of the word “cathartic”. To those friends who have been through this with me I think that is exactly what this post was as well as to those who have been in similar situations.
Not everything has to be a benefit to the world. Look around your own world first and step up to the plate before you place that pressure on my shoulders.
May 15th, 2008 at 10:39 am
While I may or may not agree with a theoretical “poisonous person”’s punditry via a theoretical, highly-publicized blog post.. I sure am glad to have things out in the open.
May 16th, 2008 at 12:47 am
Hi J5,
Although I’m not deeply involved in OLPC as you once were, I continue to volunteer my time to the project.
Thanks for your blog post. It gives me another perspective on what is happening within the organization and what to watch out for in the future.
May 17th, 2008 at 6:16 am
You not mentioning names is irrelevant, since everyone who visits and has interest in what you wrote can find out who you’re talking about. And you’re throwing some pretty serious accusations around, such as: “who failed on almost every single one of their given tasks”. Is that fair? I wouldn’t know, I’m not an insider, so it’s not a rhetorical question.