Comments on: WebKit and XULRunner (Mozilla) side by side on the XO http://www.j5live.com/2007/08/02/webkit-and-xulrunner-mozilla-side-by-side-on-the-xo/ Where the urethane hits the pavement Wed, 10 Mar 2010 14:57:42 -0500 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.4 hourly 1 By: Ano Nymous http://www.j5live.com/2007/08/02/webkit-and-xulrunner-mozilla-side-by-side-on-the-xo/comment-page-1/#comment-18714 Ano Nymous Sat, 25 Aug 2007 20:42:15 +0000 http://www.j5live.com/?p=395#comment-18714 > There are other high level stuff that Pango takes care of Such as being able to use glyphs from multiple fonts for the same text/paragraph automatically... > There are other high level stuff that Pango takes care of

Such as being able to use glyphs from multiple fonts for the same text/paragraph automatically…

]]> By: J5 http://www.j5live.com/2007/08/02/webkit-and-xulrunner-mozilla-side-by-side-on-the-xo/comment-page-1/#comment-18707 J5 Sat, 11 Aug 2007 17:38:27 +0000 http://www.j5live.com/?p=395#comment-18707 FreeType2 is a glyph engine not a layout engine. Pango has a Freetype2 backend. Supporting languages is much more than rendering Glyphs, It is the ability to break correctly on word and paragraph boundaries (Thai for instance does not have spaces between words) and layout text in any direction. For instance Pango can mix left to right, right to left and vertical scripts in the same layout. There are other high level stuff that Pango takes care of which is why it is a requirement for us. FreeType2 is a glyph engine not a layout engine. Pango has a Freetype2 backend. Supporting languages is much more than rendering Glyphs, It is the ability to break correctly on word and paragraph boundaries (Thai for instance does not have spaces between words) and layout text in any direction. For instance Pango can mix left to right, right to left and vertical scripts in the same layout. There are other high level stuff that Pango takes care of which is why it is a requirement for us.

]]> By: Yuan CHAO http://www.j5live.com/2007/08/02/webkit-and-xulrunner-mozilla-side-by-side-on-the-xo/comment-page-1/#comment-18704 Yuan CHAO Thu, 09 Aug 2007 22:48:29 +0000 http://www.j5live.com/?p=395#comment-18704 Yes, many local developers on forums all think X (freetype?) should be used to draw the text instead of Cairo, which serves well on 2D graphics like SVG. Freetype supports CJK well and handles nice antialias rendering. Take the official ff2 as a reference point, once the performance issues are solved, I would still prefer mozilla engine for it's better supported by websites. Yes, many local developers on forums all think X (freetype?) should be used to draw the text instead of Cairo, which serves well on 2D graphics like SVG. Freetype supports CJK well and handles nice antialias rendering. Take the official ff2 as a reference point, once the performance issues are solved, I would still prefer mozilla engine for it’s better supported by websites.

]]> By: J5 http://www.j5live.com/2007/08/02/webkit-and-xulrunner-mozilla-side-by-side-on-the-xo/comment-page-1/#comment-18703 J5 Thu, 09 Aug 2007 01:58:59 +0000 http://www.j5live.com/?p=395#comment-18703 That was Fedora 5, the state of the art for Cairo and Pango fixed many performance problems. There is also the issue that is being addressed in Mozilla HEAD in which Mozilla would use Pango to calculate layout and then use X to draw the fonts. The fact is that most of the performance problems that have not been addressed by enhancements in Cairo and Pango are application using the libraries incorrectly. There are still places of performance where we can fix within the libraries. It isn't perfect but it is the best of breed when handling nice anitaliased, internationalized text layout. That was Fedora 5, the state of the art for Cairo and Pango fixed many performance problems. There is also the issue that is being addressed in Mozilla HEAD in which Mozilla would use Pango to calculate layout and then use X to draw the fonts. The fact is that most of the performance problems that have not been addressed by enhancements in Cairo and Pango are application using the libraries incorrectly. There are still places of performance where we can fix within the libraries. It isn’t perfect but it is the best of breed when handling nice anitaliased, internationalized text layout.

]]> By: Yuan CHAO http://www.j5live.com/2007/08/02/webkit-and-xulrunner-mozilla-side-by-side-on-the-xo/comment-page-1/#comment-18702 Yuan CHAO Wed, 08 Aug 2007 22:15:57 +0000 http://www.j5live.com/?p=395#comment-18702 As a Chinese speaker, I don't know how much Pango/Cairo provides for better internationalization. But since FC5 released, a significant performance impact is met since Pango/Cairo compiled in FC5 firefox package. We either have to set 'MOZ_DISABLE_PANGO=1' or use the mozilla official build of firefox to get rid of it. AFAIK, the optimization for font rendering is to catching 256 characters. However, this is never enough for typical hundreds to thousands of characters on CJK pages. Though I personally still think it's improve-able. On a B4 XO the official firefox 2.0.0.6 runs smoothly while Browser activity has difficulty scrolling on large CJK contents. It would be interesting to compare minimo with webkit on XO rendering CJK pages. :) As a Chinese speaker, I don’t know how much Pango/Cairo provides for better internationalization. But since FC5 released, a significant performance impact is met since Pango/Cairo compiled in FC5 firefox package. We either have to set ‘MOZ_DISABLE_PANGO=1′ or use the mozilla official build of firefox to get rid of it. AFAIK, the optimization for font rendering is to catching 256 characters. However, this is never enough for typical hundreds to thousands of characters on CJK pages. Though I personally still think it’s improve-able. On a B4 XO the official firefox 2.0.0.6 runs smoothly while Browser activity has difficulty scrolling on large CJK contents. It would be interesting to compare minimo with webkit on XO rendering CJK pages. :)

]]> By: Charbax http://www.j5live.com/2007/08/02/webkit-and-xulrunner-mozilla-side-by-side-on-the-xo/comment-page-1/#comment-18694 Charbax Sat, 04 Aug 2007 04:31:15 +0000 http://www.j5live.com/?p=395#comment-18694 I wonder how does the closed source Opera browser perform compared to the Gecko and Webkit alternatives? I wonder how does the closed source Opera browser perform compared to the Gecko and Webkit alternatives?

]]> By: Anon http://www.j5live.com/2007/08/02/webkit-and-xulrunner-mozilla-side-by-side-on-the-xo/comment-page-1/#comment-18692 Anon Fri, 03 Aug 2007 13:02:12 +0000 http://www.j5live.com/?p=395#comment-18692 Allegedly footprint is one or the reasons that KHTML was chosen as the basis for Safari rather than Gecko. Mike Pinkerton mentions that Webcore is easier to work on that Gecko but that Gecko renders more (http://weblogs.mozillazine.org/pinkerton/archives/017550.html ). Surprisingly that's all I could find on Webcore vs Gecko from developers who had *actually* written code for both (Gecko does more but KHTML/Webcore is easier to understand). Allegedly footprint is one or the reasons that KHTML was chosen as the basis for Safari rather than Gecko. Mike Pinkerton mentions that Webcore is easier to work on that Gecko but that Gecko renders more (http://weblogs.mozillazine.org/pinkerton/archives/017550.html ). Surprisingly that’s all I could find on Webcore vs Gecko from developers who had *actually* written code for both (Gecko does more but KHTML/Webcore is easier to understand).

]]> By: MattW http://www.j5live.com/2007/08/02/webkit-and-xulrunner-mozilla-side-by-side-on-the-xo/comment-page-1/#comment-18691 MattW Fri, 03 Aug 2007 12:51:58 +0000 http://www.j5live.com/?p=395#comment-18691 Henri: At GUADEC, Nokia were the people talking about having to drop Pango and Cairo to get Gecko to fit nicely on the N800. I assume that's who J5 was referring to. At the moment it seems fairly clear that if WebKit on GTK+ can mature fast enough, it's going to be the browser component of choice for embedded platforms for a good while yet. Mozilla may be concentrating more on it in time, but they're not going to be able to achieve miracles overnight. Henri: At GUADEC, Nokia were the people talking about having to drop Pango and Cairo to get Gecko to fit nicely on the N800. I assume that’s who J5 was referring to. At the moment it seems fairly clear that if WebKit on GTK+ can mature fast enough, it’s going to be the browser component of choice for embedded platforms for a good while yet. Mozilla may be concentrating more on it in time, but they’re not going to be able to achieve miracles overnight.

]]> By: Henri Bergius http://www.j5live.com/2007/08/02/webkit-and-xulrunner-mozilla-side-by-side-on-the-xo/comment-page-1/#comment-18690 Henri Bergius Fri, 03 Aug 2007 11:43:25 +0000 http://www.j5live.com/?p=395#comment-18690 Interestingly, Nokia decided to go with Gecko for the maemo platform. No idea of they have made any tests with WebKit, though. Interestingly, Nokia decided to go with Gecko for the maemo platform.

No idea of they have made any tests with WebKit, though.

]]> By: David Nielsen http://www.j5live.com/2007/08/02/webkit-and-xulrunner-mozilla-side-by-side-on-the-xo/comment-page-1/#comment-18689 David Nielsen Fri, 03 Aug 2007 05:03:38 +0000 http://www.j5live.com/?p=395#comment-18689 Any chance we might see some rpms in Rawhide for webkit? Any chance we might see some rpms in Rawhide for webkit?

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