I didn’t say that one shall “let these things slip”. The opposite is true: I said that definitly some kind of action needs to be taken – I really do have the same opinion as you in this point and in my humble opinion it is a good thing that you stepped forward to get a solution and to interrupt the circle of things.

What I felt so uncomfortable with is the *way* it happend. I know that it was David and not you to get the names on p.g.o. but I still feel that that was unacceptable. It is a question of a persons dignity and integrity. I doubt that it is a good thing to loose respect of anybody. Again in my humble opinion loosing respect is at least thoughtless if it is not self-righteous or a lack of humanity.

I feel bad for Carol, I do. She doesn’t need my pitty though if what you say is true she needs help. Just because she has been victimized does not mean she has the right to victimize others. It is called a cycle and it needs to be broken.

As I keep telling you I never outted her, she did that herself. I never mentioned her name before she did and had no prior knowledge of who she was. To say my humanity is somehow in question is to say that by letting these things slip we are somehow being compationate. What about all of the people Carol has abused? Do they get your compation? Or is it that you just want the world to pass without conflict, which can only happen by ignoring it.

If what you say is true then she needs help and not excuses.

But there’s something else I’d like to talk about. Because I wrote a mail to Diana as well, I was somewhat shocked when reading the following part:

“The response she got in a private e-mail was less than courteous, basically belittling Diana and informing her to stop filing bugs. When I say belittling, I mean it was downright insulting and if Diana gives me the permission to post it I will.”

This is something I don’t like at all, something of a “I do know what you don’t know.” If carol didn’t repost the mails here, we might still be guessing who sent that insult, or even what the insult had been.

Also, at the time Diana filed the bugs, someone else from Redhat was on #gimp. IIRC, he said that he had encouraged her to file the bugs, and apologized for not preparing this better – discussing this on the mailing list might have been a better approach. Now, I’m surprised that the insult wasn’t mentioned earlier.

Carol has done quite a lot for the community. She has been in the past perceived as valuable member of it. If you have a look at carol.gimp.org you can easily figure out that she is carrying a some baggage from her childhood. Everybody today gets completly upset when we hear about child abuse and that is absolutly right. Why is it necessary to crucify sombody who encountered whatever bad during the childhood again 20 years later in public on a planet?

Yes, I agree that some action definitly needed to be taken but not this way. It is so obvious that she has personal difficulties. J5 and David: your social skills are not two cents further developed than Carol’s. And your humanity is absolutly zero. Your human-social coldness is devastating.

My personal thanks to Carol, like thousands of others I have profited a lot from your tutorials. My best wishes for you and your life.

Last thing – that’s what Miguel wrote on #gimp Sat Sep 04:
18:34 I have this retarded user called carol sending some pretty annoying and stupid emails to me my way

Dear Dennis this is directly to you: nobody stood up to say to Miguel “types like you are community ruiners, YOU are a community ruiner, and his has nothing to do with degrees of education but it has to do with personal social development, something you dont learn at any school.”, nobody pilloried him although he certainly too steped over the limits.

It’s a shame how this looked like as if the actual developers where not willingly
to work with Diana. I have seen this pattern before, where a software user
thinks he/she is in the position of interfering with how and who is contributing
to a software package. Carols personal discomforts have ended up halting a
process within the development cycle. Obviously I can not begin to describe
how sad this is.

Carol, this is directly to you, types like you are community ruiners, YOU are a community ruiner, and this has nothing to do with degrees of education but
it has to do with personal social development, something you don’t learn at
any school.

I apologize for not being able to keep this to myself.

The GIMP community have been nothing but helpful, supportive and inclusive in the past ( even carol if memory serves me ). Duplicate bugs are annoying especially if you have to close them . But flat out abuse is absurd

Could it be that a monkey has stolen access to all of Carol’s means of communication? or have we lost the sanity of a valuable member in the opensource community?

I’m hoping the latter is incorrect.

peace

You missed the gist of the joke and the gist of the argument which really has nothing to do about the gimp and more about how to be civilized. Like I said you can be gruf with a person without being derogitory. Once you cross that line don’t look for any sympathy from me. Also dfong has no obligations to respond to an abusive letter. She went on with her life, deciding not to contribute to the Gimp some months ago. I brought it up because it is one of the issues I find within may communities.

Everyone else was jumping in with the chance to apologize even though they had no need to and I respect them for that. The fact of the matter is the one person who needed to apologize instead decided to rant and go on to be even more abusive. The valididty of anyones concern is porpotional to their own level of conduct. I may be upset that someone ate my last twinkie in the company fridge but I don’t get to shoot them

p.s. Read Carol’s first letter and you will get the joke.

These arguments happen elsewhere as well which is why I feel the need to comment. The stance of you leaving and/or subjecting this person Carol to leave is extremist. Extemism doesn’t help anyone. I’m assuming both of you like and use the Gimp which is what this argument should boil down to. From what I can see its truly a petty argument and would do more to hurt each of your respective concerns regarding the Gimp as well.

This is a people issue. This person Carol made a statement and regardless of its seeming brashness. The validity in her concerns should be addressed. If this other party who submitted the info feels personally attacked she should respond herself. Take issue with the concern and then explain attitudes or expected behavior to the parties in question. New blood to a project doesn’t mean they shouldn’t make an effort to follow the rules of the project. No matter how talented or gifted they maybe. Veterans should nurture this process and if Carol is not the one, then maybe you should be.

There is certainly a more amicable solution than you just taking your ball home.

I realize this now. I know how fustrating bugzilla can be at times. I think you guys do a kickass job.