Sun 12 Jun 2005
by the name of berkus just posted comments to my blog in two older entries. Did the person think I would not see them?
“dbus should evaporate as it is EVIL”
and
“YOU MUST DIE DBUS DEVELOPERS! ”
They are bit unnerving posts, and I feel very angry that someone would be so casual in throwing around such utter crap. If you have a problem with the technology then join the discussion. If you think idle threats will get you anywhere then you have a long, frustrating wait ahead.
I am looking forward to doing next weeks release even more now just knowing how much it is going to piss this guy off.
[read this post in: ar de es fr it ja ko pt ru zh-CN ]
June 12th, 2005 at 10:42 pm
I think you take this guy a bit too seriously. He’s just a troll and isn’t worth wasting your thoughts on.
June 12th, 2005 at 11:25 pm
Russians are coming. They are preparing to start the flash mob.
See here http://www.livejournal.com/users/madfire/240235.html
Berkus asks his readers to post it in your blog and will give a bottle of beer to everyone who will post.
June 12th, 2005 at 11:28 pm
Aw, you just gave him what he wanted. Attention.
June 13th, 2005 at 1:16 am
See http://micke.hallendal.net/archives/2005/04/im_sorry_to_hea.html
for a similar situation.
Indeed you should ignore them.
Or simply provide their IP address and time of comment entry.
June 13th, 2005 at 7:42 am
Berkus is a very famous KDE developer and usually know what he is talking about. Besides his sometimes extreme way of communication he is indeed right. On dot.kde.org people are evaluating whether it makes sense using DBUS in KDE4 and if there are any benefits to replace DCOP with DBUS and the people concluded that it is still too early to decide on this. DBUS is by far to overhyped to be useful for anything and people kept hyping it long before any code was written (when the stuff was still written on paper and the ink wasn’t dry). So what benefits does DBUS actually have ? It’s crashing, it’s not stable, it’s immature and the best of the best even people from the GNOME camp are dropping DBUS as the BEAGLE people recently did. You should step over to dot.kde.org for further conversation in the “svn diggest” thread.
June 13th, 2005 at 8:18 am
And I talked to Joe about dropping it in BEAGLE. That is not an example of D-Bus failing but rather an application that had a need that D-Bus was overkill for. You couldn’t use the BEAGLE solution for anything but BEAGLE. Please don’t misrepresent or jump to conclusions. I agree in areas that D-Bus has been hyped a bit but we are actually increasing usage in many areas. There are bugs no doubt, I personally haven’t seen crashes but then again it is still not 1.0. Please file bugs instead of just some vague reference you heard from some developer somewhere.
What benefits does D-Bus have? Well HAL for one. The latest KDE stuff uses D-Bus to talk to HAL. It has proven itself awhile back. If it was only being used for that it would already be useful beyond reproach.
D-Bus rolls on. And berkus is feeling frustrated at such a prospect. You say that he is a “famous” KDE developer. Well I have no respect for him and his ways and will pay no more attention to him even if he does come up with an intelligent thought (which I doubt). Stop excusing his actions. If he wants to be a man he can have a talk with me face to face but then again some people feel “empowered” by hiding behind the Internet.
June 13th, 2005 at 8:54 am
Let me quote someone from dot.kde.org
“I have dbus running and it sits taking up memory with a daemon waiting for me to put in a cd, which fires up hotplug scripts, which fires up HAL, and broadcasts on dbus, and then shows an icon on Kicker, probably through dcop. An engineering marvel. Dbus seems to be a solution in search of a problem.”
And I agree with this and concluded that having something operate like this is a big disadvantage and heavily sucks. You seem to get some proper knowledge in porper design of an IPC bus. I wrote one myself for a propitary OS 13 years ago and we hadn’t had these issues like firing up something called HAL or starting hotplug scripts or whatever.
Please do us all a favor and make sure that people stop hyping dbus until it matures to something usable, as long as this won’t happen make sure it’s not being adopted everywhere, since I don’t plan to add more crap to my Linux system than necessary, than I already have to.
June 13th, 2005 at 8:55 am
s/You seem to get some/You need to get some/g
June 13th, 2005 at 9:30 am
What does all this have to do with a proper IPC bus? Hotplug is going away, all hal is doing is notifying you over the IPC bus. D-Bus has zero to do with waiting for someone to plug in a cd other than allowing other programs to broadcast that someone has. Obviously you are falling into the hype and don’t understand the architecture.
“wrote one myself for a proprietary OS 13 years ago and we hadn’t had these issues like firing up something called HAL or starting hotplug scripts or whatever.”
The code has to be somewhere. Was it part of the kernel and less user visible? Sorry, less flexible, can’t be locked down, etc. You can disable D-Bus and Hal if you would like. It won’t break your system. If you want to get rid of bloat work on fixing X or don’t run it at all. Oh and if you have IPC experience why not help out and getting all your gripes fixed with D-Bus instead of complaining about it?
BTW I have no control over who incorporates D-Bus other than in Fedora. People have obviously been finding it useful faster than I had hoped.
June 13th, 2005 at 3:10 pm
J5: Like David Holmes said — don’t waste time on these jesters! DBUS kicks ass. It’s good enough there are outside ISVs looking to work with it even though they know it’s not stable yet. That’s high praise.
June 21st, 2005 at 2:05 pm
Actually Berkus works for a certain company that uses DBUS. I wouldn’t be surprised if this is the quite-normal angst one feels with any programming language/library.